The Premier Leagues longest-serving manager is discussing the concept of dynasty in football when, somewhere along the way, he ends up at birthday meals.
When I was growing up you went out for dinner for special birthdays, Sean Dyche recalls.
Now, families go out once, twice a week. Its part of the culture of life. This is life developing.
Dyches point is that the shift in modern culture has some good sides as well as the bad that, he believes, modern football reflects, causing the ferocious turnover of managers.
The average life expectancy of a manager now is around 14 months, Dyche says, compared to three years in the 1990s. The trouble now is the demand for change is almost instant, he tells i. Everyone wants the fridge delivered a day earlier, and they want a longer warranty. And why isnt it cheaper? And we all get on the internet and search around.
We use it for two years and decide even though theres nothing wrong with it we want something else, so we get rid of that. We get a new one in. That kind of mentality is in life, therefore the chances are its going to go into your thinking in sport. Thats why the culture is changing.
Dyche has agreed to this interview after launching the Sean Dyche Family Scholarship, a 15,000 sponsorship spread over three years for a prospective student at the University Campus of Football Business. But as we twist and turn through topics, it transcends into The World According to Sean Dyche: probabilities, possibilities, modern culture, longevity, his football philosophy.
Towards the end he will describe it as the longest interview ever. Are we doing a book? he asks. Though it would take more than one or possibly a Lord of the Rings-esque tome to fit in everything Dyche knows and thinks about life and football.
When Dyche gets going he sounds more like a young tech entrepreneur pitching their latest mobile app to venture capitalists, on the verge of sealing an investment worth hundreds of millions. Fast-talking, passionate, brimming with ideas. Not a man nearing his half century who has become a stalwart of English football and a household name after eight years spent at Burnley.
There are few managers who can discuss with such authority the ingredients for longevity at a football club. Perhaps Sir Alex Ferguson with his 26 years at Manchester United, Arsene Wenger with 21 at Arsenal, David Moyes with 11 at Everton.
So how has Dyche done it in the modern era when managerial lifespans have shrunk?
Having good staff who are different people to you, so you get real opinions rather than everyone joining in with my opinion thinking Im right, because Im not always right, he explains. Only 99.9999 per cent of the time.
The players are vital, recruitment is vital. Weve got a good alignment at Burnley. When I first joined the one thing I mentioned was a one-club mentality. I really believe in it. Most successful football clubs have a unity running through them. It sounds easy, but its not easy to build that mentality and get all noses pointed in the right direction.
Ive a good feeling about the way we work: the respect, the authenticity, the honesty of the way people are here, the way they treat people.
Dyches view of football management is shaped not by those longstanding managers who came before, but by his 20-year playing career. I was a bit of a journeyman, he says.
He didnt play regularly in the Premier League, but he played everywhere else, and won four promotions. Only during one of them did he realise the signs of longevity were missing, at Bristol City. True to that hunch, they were relegated the following season.
I remember even as a player thinking theres an alignment through the club, the manager, the coaches, the staff, the players, the delivery of the performance, the fans gluing into what the team stands for.
He learnt about alignment and how business worked from his dad, Alan, who was a management consultant for British Steel. And, he adds, I had an instinct for it.
And off we go: A lot of it involves simple things. Honesty is essential. Truthfulness with players. The pride, the passion, the individual responsibility, the will, the desire to work.
Eventually you build a culture. Once you get that right, as long as youve got some quality in your building, the culture is the glue that holds it all together. The way you work, the environment, then that allows the talent of the individual to flourish.
You need a lot of people with you, carrying that same message. Its very difficult to do it on your own. Theres a lot of convincing, a lot of cajoling. Then you get this flow and it starts spreading, and it spreads through your staff into the players, and into the feel of a club. But it takes time.
Time, though, is footballs most precious commodity. Blink and you miss the tweak to that rule, the latest signing at one club, the firing and hiring at another.
Yet football, Dyche says, is changing in other ways, too. A life in football is no longer shut off from those kids who love the game but are not great at playing it. It used to be that those who tried to work in football and had not played were sneered at or ignored. That has slowly changed.
Jose Mourinho is the most successful example: Sir Bobby Robsons interpreter to assistant at Barcelona, to one of the games leading managers. Dyche cites others.
Brendan Rodgers had been in the system at Reading, he got injured, was out of the game at 19, but he had a feel of it. Mark Warburton was an apprentice footballer, didnt make it as a pro, played a bit of non-league.
The open mindedness of the way coaching works now is that you can learn skillsets and still be very successful. Jose is definitely an example of that, as is Gerard Houllier, Arsene Wenger. There are many more who have come through different pathways. Its forever opening. They were some who have opened the minds of many and that continues. The world is changing in professional sport.
Dyche could end up supporting that next coach, sporting director or football leader who never played the game. He launched his familys scholarship after consulting with his son and daughter Max, 17, and Alicia, 15 and his wife Jane. They were all behind it. Jane completed a degree in business and Alicia looks to be heading down an educational path. Max is a promising footballer.
I did a bit of thinking as a dad and wanted to support someone on their journey to doing well in life, possibly someone not finding it easy to get that support, he says.
His own journey is far from over and exciting adventures lie ahead. Burnley are set for a change of ownership, with multiple parties tabling offers, meaning funds will be available for Dyche to push on. But is it even possible to take Burnley to the next level, in this world of footballs global behemoths?
There are possibilities and probabilities, Dyche begins.
Deep breath, as we plunge down another Dyche waterfall: Probably, without a financial shift, then its very difficult to compete beyond the reality of competing to be in the Premier League. Thats a probability.
Possibilities, thats a different ball game. We finished seventh. Then we finished 10th. Two out of the last three seasons. Nobody wouldve given us a chance of that. Things are achievable in a possible mindset for different things, but you have to sometimes register the probabilities. Probably life at Burnley is going to be working hard to be in the Premier League and trying to inch away at things, rather than make big strides forward at any given time. Because when you get to a certain level, finance becomes really important.
Thats something Burnley has lagged behind the truth of the market in, weve got to stretch that going forward, stretch the mentality of investment to allow Burnley to continue growing on the pitch. There are a lot of good things going on off the pitch, but they will only work if the team is working and the team will need an ongoing investment platform to take it further.
We resurface for air. Dyche looks and sounds as though he could carry on forever.
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The world according to Sean Dyche: Im not always right only 99.9999 per cent of the time - iNews
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